nonelvis: (DW BITCH PLZ)
[personal profile] nonelvis
The reccing comm concept is simple.

Step 1. People sign up to recommend stories they like. Because people have different tastes in fanfic, sometimes you'll like what they rec, and sometimes you won't.

Step 2. If you don't like what people recommend, you can sign up to recommend something yourself.

Please note that Step 2 is not "I'm going to whine about [livejournal.com profile] three_settings or [livejournal.com profile] calufrax oppressing me" on an anonymous meme.

Now, stop failing at step 2.

Thanks.

on 2009-05-03 11:38 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
I take it people are still angry about that story rec from a few days ago?

on 2009-05-03 11:54 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
Er, I would read it but I'm very busy, er, sorting all the apples in my refrigerator by variety and color. Takes hours, you know. (Also, if a reccer introduces him/herself as a Ten/Rose or whoever else/whoever else shipper I kind of assume that's the sort of story they'll most likely be reccing, or am I doing it wrong again?)

on 2009-05-04 12:03 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] violetisblue.livejournal.com
"Grudgemousie simply disputes that stories with pairings other than Ten/Rose are actually, uh, about pairings other than Ten/Rose."

But...if they...and the...with the thing and...okay, then!

on 2009-05-03 11:44 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com
Well, hopefully the fallout from this will be that [livejournal.com profile] three_settings now gets a flood of people signing up. That would gratify me and sortof/kindof make me feel like I made a positive contribution to the comm. I pissed so many people off I got them to get off their arses! (we'll see...)

on 2009-05-04 01:02 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] prof-pangaea.livejournal.com
*jumps in*

i know it reminded me that i'd meant to sign up to rec and just hadn't remembered, so hurrah for that?

also, i don't know what was up with the grudge anon(s) who were insisting that you reccing mostly ten/rose was some ultimate evil. it's not my thing but it's also not a surprise when someone comes on and says "i pretty much only read and write ten/rose" that their favourite fics are going to be... ten/rose.

i did understand when a few anons were "..." when you explained why you recced the fics you did here (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/5574.html?thread=24363718#t24363718), because it did come across a bit as "there's no good femmeslash and most boyslash is about people being suddenly gay for eachother and is unbelievable and to some extent inherently crack". i'm the anon who responded there in all-lower case wondering if you meant it the way it came across to me (shocking, i know). i saw that later you responded somewhere else by saying that you'd worded that poorly, which cheered me quite a bit (i still think "the loved verse" is seriously problematic, but that's a separate issue). er, if you were wondering what one anon's opinion might have been, at least.

on 2009-05-04 01:48 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com
Thank you for that and your clarifications. I was responding to one element of what someone said, but I didn't want it to be taken as referring to all slash fic, and especially to not also apply to het fic. My standards for both genres are the same, but I was just talking about slash (and one tiny element of one subset of slash) at the time so I didn't clarify when I should have.

IDK... I sort of feel like fandom wants everyone to process and work through their privilege in public for everyone else to commentate on in real time, but I'm not sure how appropriate that is, or whether it should be a requirement in order to participate in fandom. It can sort of feel like a self-criticism meeting at times, with people who don't even e-know me let alone real-life know me.

Edited because: Oh god I'm wording things just terribly today. This is what happens when I get all flustered. That second paragraph has nothing to do with you, or what you said, just a general observation. Sigh. I am just going to get off the internets... like... forever.
Edited on 2009-05-04 02:39 am (UTC)

on 2009-05-04 03:21 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] livii.livejournal.com
I didn't comment on the thread, but while I think the person who took you to task for what you recced was an idiot (if the mods said it was cool, then it was cool, jeez louise! Someone had a stick up their ass), I admit to being rubbed really the wrong way by what you said about the femslash story you recced. And while I understand that you weren't being as clear as you like, I still think that when you say something like that, it becomes open comment for others to think about and question your privilege. Because my first reaction was "oh, god, she's a woman and she thinks all femslash is squicky but het is okay, I am so disgusted by that" and while that's unfair, I think part of what we *do* in fandom is have discussions about these things if it's brought into our fandom space, which is what you did in your comment. I do, I do understand that you probably didn't mean any of that, but it's very difficult for others to not want to engage with that.

The whofandom, by the way, has a nice amount of femslash that covers lots of genres and pairings, and I'd encourage you to give it a chance; I think what might have also rubbed people wrong was the way you seemed to normatize one (het) pairing and classify others as non-canon, when to multi-shippers and many fans, the one (het) pairing you normatize isn't actually canon, so many of these other pairings are just as potentially canonical as the one you favour (I thought Rose had amazing chemistry with a lot of the girls she met on her travels, for instance!) And when your comment seemed to marginalize all slash and femslash in favour of the het pairing, and only describe squicky language as belonging to those two genres (since there's much less explicit femslash than explicit het out there, I actually find the ratio of "oh god, no" way better in favour of femslash, especially since it rarely contains throbbing manhoods and the like), it starts to feel really problematic, and I don't blame people for wanting to express that (as I am here, obviously). I don't know if working through your privilege in public is a fandom requirement, but I do think that it's easier to avoid having to do that if some potentially ugly opinions aren't held out on display. I know I sympathize with [livejournal.com profile] ionlylurkhere, as you didn't exactly sell me on why her story was good, only why it was less-worse.

Sorry to intrude like this, but I spent a lot of time thinking about this and decided I'd feel better if I just said it, rather than meanly thinking it behind your back, or something. I don't know.

on 2009-05-04 03:50 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com
Yeah, none of that was at all in any way my intention, but I know it's totally my fault that it came out that way and at this point I have no idea how I could make it better that would in fact not just make it worse.

It's not really even a matter of me giving femslash "a chance" because I've never *not* given it a chance. To me it's another genre and my same standards of well-written, nicely characterised, emotionally real and resonate apply to it as well. And to m/m slash as well.

I screwed up, big time. I imagine I'm going to be feeling the depth of my screw-up for some time to come.

on 2009-05-04 03:55 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] livii.livejournal.com
No, I hope you don't get too much blowback on it. I'm sorry to contribute but I decided, I dunno, to just sort of say it and hope in some way it might be useful to you to know what sorts of things people might be thinking.

Your comments since that one comment have been thoughtful and responsive, and I hope people will take the time to see that and react appropriately (though I think if they still want to discuss some of the broader issues brought up, they probably will). Best of luck. I know it sucks when you feel like you're in too deep/in the shit; for what it's worth, which I know isn't much, but I think you've done a good job since.

on 2009-05-04 04:03 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com
One disadvantage of my decision to post as obvious!anon was I couldn't go back and edit once I gave that one a re-read and went "!!!"

Ironically enough, my comment above was posted prematurely by me hitting return in some weird way that told LJ to post, and I was mid-edit when I saw your reply. I didn't intend to use my Sooper Shippy Icon either. *sigh* Just one of those days. But thank you for expressing your feelings, and doing so unanon and personally with me. I certainly appreciate everyone who legitimately wanted to have a discussion rather than shouting match.

Sometimes fandom feels like a minefield. Sometimes it feels like a drug. And pretty much all the time I'm certain that I don't know what I'm doing either which way.

*jumping in*

on 2009-05-04 08:26 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] magicallaw.livejournal.com
Okay, so I'm not going to get into the other stuff, but please don't let a few anons get you down. As others have said, you made it fairly clear what your tastes were at the beginning of your week. You were also paired with someone we knew would rec a much wider range of stories. I'm sure there were a number of people who appreciated your recs, so just focus on them.

Re: *jumping in*

on 2009-05-04 02:59 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] papilio-luna.livejournal.com
Thank you for that, o my mod. :) I could have brushed it off a lot easier if people just stuck to "you recced a pairing I don't like HDU" but it kind of got a bit out of hand subsequently. Still, I hope this means a flood of new and interesting reccers for the comm, so there's that!

on 2009-05-04 12:33 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kalleah.livejournal.com
I leave you people alone for three days and this is what happens? Sigh. [livejournal.com profile] papilio_luna, I think you got the short end of the stick there. So sorry. :( It makes me self-conscious about my next rec week (May 11).

I reiterate my continued annoyance with the anonmeme. I know, I know, there's socially redeeming stuff there, okay, but it seems to me to be where too many bitter people say nasty things about others.

on 2009-05-04 12:58 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kalleah.livejournal.com
Oh, I'm going to stick with what I was originally planning to do, which is to try and share some of the pornier items from my memories and Teaspoon favorites, and try to vary the pairings as much as I can. It's just that I have a stronger sense of putting myself out there on display than I did before, when I was just sharing for fun.

on 2009-05-04 05:21 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kalleah.livejournal.com
I'm glad. Uncharacteristically, I responded (http://community.livejournal.com/who_anon/5574.html?thread=24413126#t24413126).

on 2009-05-04 03:57 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] gritsinmisery.livejournal.com
Oy. I ride the [livejournal.com profile] crackvan and do I bitch (elsewhere) when a reviewer-of-the-month for one of my fandoms says, "I am an A/B shipper, so that's what know to recommend" when A/B is not my ship? No, I just skip that fandom that month and keep my big mouth shut, b/c 1) I was warned, thank you, I'm not sitting on tenterhooks waiting for my OTP, 2) I only ride, I don't ever volunteer to drive, and 3) I get upset enough when we get a driver who recommends fics that are poorly written vis-a-vis grammar-and-punctuation mechanics, plot, or characterization, so I'm sure as hell not gonna bitch just because good fic that's not my OTP is being rec'd.

If folks aren't gonna volunteer to rec, then they got no bitch when the only person willing to step up isn't playing by all the comm rules.

I'm kinda glad I'm not following that comm, now.

on 2009-05-04 05:24 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kalleah.livejournal.com
I'm kinda glad I'm not following that comm, now.

See, that's what makes me really sad. It's a great concept and a fun comm -- and I've read some things that I wouldn't have through recs there. Also, reccing and knowing that I want to stretch outside my usual comfort zone for things that are well written has been entertaining for me as well. It pisses me off that one person's random bitching has cast aspersions on that. You're not the only one, I'm sure.

I'm not going to be all high and mighty and suggest that I have never engaged in fandom bitching ... but I do it either (1) directly with the person I have a beef with or (2) behind a friends-lock. Maybe that makes me as cowardly as those I'm criticizing, but at least the people on my filter have some knowledge of me and context for my random bitching.

ETA: Please know that rant wasn't directed at you. :)

ETA #2: If folks aren't gonna volunteer to rec, then they got no bitch when the only person willing to step up isn't playing by all the comm rules.

We're all assuming that the OP doesn't rec, and I suppose we don't have confirmation. Again, this is part of my beef with anonymous posting.
Edited on 2009-05-04 05:26 am (UTC)

on 2009-05-04 02:20 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] crickwooder.livejournal.com
Some days fandom makes me want to jam a rusty spork in my eye.

Then I go to a parenting LJ and fandom seems tame again.

on 2009-05-04 02:34 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] crickwooder.livejournal.com
HFCS and porn that is not to someone's taste = SRS BUSINESS! IT MUST BE STOPPED!

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